Andrew Fryer deepfat Show full post »
Iain Morrison wimorrison
My experience would suggest that it is the depth of the frog and wheel flanges that is the most critical factor for smooth running when using Peco turnouts rather than a variation of 0.1mm in the back to back.
Iain Morrison
Modelling h0e using Z21 with iTrain automation and Railcom
There are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know
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Euan, to qualify this.

As far as I am concerned, Martin and I do not actually disagree, but we do look at it from a different perspective.

Martin is the creator of a brilliant bit of software that will let you design and build the templates to let you create pointwork in any scale or to most standards. It has a bit of a learning curve because shortcuts do not necissarily work the way that Microsoft or Adobe uses them, but its well worth persisting with because its the best oll on the planet for the job it is created for. I use it when I make points and would not consider using anything else.It is, by the way, called TEMPLOT and well worth a look.

*Therefore Martin understand the engineering issues related to the track / wheel relationship and will always respond in relation to standards exactly, which is fair enough and quite correct in the appropriate context.

I/we create products for the wider world in which manufacturers (especially for the UK) do not nexessarily follow the standards, so...
* Wheels can have flanges that are thinner or thicker than standards and generally the UK Mfrs do not specify things consistently so there are many different wheel profiles overall as a result. (B are best at it, H are very inconsistent and I do not think that D even understand the subject)
* Wheels are then also often placed on the axle the wrong distance apart because they do not specify properly in relation to their wheel profile when they have things made.
* In addition to that there are multiple track brands with designs full of compromise so that they do not meet the standards either in many cases in re4lation to check gauge / check rail positioning (anything called "Universal" for example will usally be well off).
* And to make it worse sometimes there are compromises for working with smaller radii AND the plastics used for sleepering etc can actually shrink slightly over time so things can change especially if the train shed has a wide temperature range...

That means several areas that should always be consistent are not... even OK with NEW items. Add progressive changes to wheels over the past 30 years or so and all bets are off. So... when we created the gauges, we bought literally hundreds of items / locos/stock etc and tested them all on various track brands from UK, US, EU brands.

Therefore we made our decisions based on an average real world set of test results.


So - Martin and I would both love it if all makers simply did as they easily could if they tried / should and got it right. If they did that we would give the same answer. It is a shame they do not as life would be better for all modellers.

Meanwhile we will continue to agree to disagree, but no discussion will ever be such that it could not be done with a smile over a pint at the local.

My conclusion.
Use either 14.4 or 14.5 as the main guideline and you will generally be OK. Experiment a bit with wheels that look finer OR older stock.
In the end finding a sweet spot for some might be a bit of a faff, but you will get there as long as you approach this subject with consistent ideals and a positive wish to simply get it all running smoothly.

kind regards, Ahjay

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